What does it mean to be an employee, a member of an Organization, a citizen? If we give Texas back to Mexico, and North Dakoda to Canada, then what remains of the US? Every American is an immigrant after a fashion, so the argument of not allowing them into the country is mute; we are a country of Immigrants. However, we are also a country under the rule of law. So, what does it mean to be "Illegal"? Illegal immigrant, like the rest of us, are only striving to seek out a better way of life. When I hear the argument that the citizen wont work for such-and-such wages - so let's hire the illegal immigrant; all I hear is an illegal act that victimizes another person, and drags the economic system down. It is just this slow, erroding away type of thinking that has brought us where we are today in America.
We need to secure the boarders the way we always have, not by fences and walls but by upholding the legal system that our immigrant forefathers founded, and our dying, patriotic fathers before us upheld. It wasn't considered racist then to protect the nation, and it isn't rascist now. It is sissy, and foolishly politicly correct to think that Homeland Security can be upheld by buring our heads in the sand, and not facing the issuses, or boarding ourself in against the facts. Treat the immigrant with the same humane respect you as a natural citizen deserve; their only right is that, and the Rule of Law. Don't like the rules? Then Vote otherwise.
The sad vicious cycle is that the Democrats see a potential voting block that will help them wrest power back from the Republicans. The Republicans see the illegals as a cheap source of labor for their greedy supporters in big business. Both side have an arrogant, racist, superior attitude toward the illegals (and YES, illegal is what they are) seeing them as a commodity to be consumed or a force to be controlled. Neither realizes that they are people with minds of their own and ideas on how things should be run. They aren't going to be satisfied for long to be held in virtual slavery by some gringo patron. But they aren't going to vote for Hillary or Al Gore or Jesse Jackson either. They are already putting their own in office and we had better start brushing up on our Spanish, for the USA will be a much different place after the Reconquista.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, they flood over the border, bringing communicable diseases, and criminals with their own agendas, even potentially, terrorists, taking advantage of our natural desire to nurture the poor, the tired, the huddled masses. They drain our resources, strain our social services, and benefit only themselves and the greedy, amoral employers who hire them for a pittance.
And believe me, my concern isn't about race. It isn't about an influx of Mexicans, but about a tidal wave of IMPOVERISHED PEOPLE into an already burdened system. I would feel the same way if millions of Canadians suddenly rushed across the border. I can't afford decent health care for myself, and I resent having to pay for the indigent care for people who shouldn't even be here.
Besides, isn't this a slap in the face to all the legal immigrants who stood in line, filled out the papers, raised their hands and pledged allegiance to the flag? Our forefathers may have been immigrants, but they didn't sneak across a border, and once they were here they couldn't wait to learn English, to adapt to the American way of life and to assimilate into our culture (While still maintaining pride in their culture and heritage, BTW.)
Here! HERE!!
ReplyDelete"Our forefathers may have been immigrants, but they didn't sneak across a border"
ReplyDeleteYes, but they didn't need to.
1906:Welcome to America Mr. Don La McFlanahansteinski! We weren't expecting you, but welcome anyway.
There are certain rights we afford to citizens that we do not apply to non-citizens. These rights are, by and large, what one should consider human rights.
If A equals C, but B doesn't equal A, then B doesn't equal C.
Logic demands that we accept that American law considers non-citizens to be sub-human.
This is not a problem America faces alone. Most of Western Europe, with their guest worker programs, is the same or worse.
Guest-worker programs ensure a sort of permanent serfdom of our immigrants, and foments justifiable disatisfaction which leads to unjustifiable acts of brutality and terrorism.
I have been following this story with interest in Australia. It has been on our news and earlier today we saw the protest marches on the issue.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest I dont think that any human being should be classified as illegal. These people should be allowed to stay in the US and be afforded full citizenship. They simply want a better life and improved standard of living.
There should be nothing wrong with that.
On the other hand corporations and businesses should not be able to exploit their labour. This is disgraceful and should be against the law.
I am somewhat surprised by some of the posts on this site in regards to the issue. But people in Australia make the same or similar comments too when we have refugees come to live here.
Don't be afraid of these people. Embrace them. They will make the US a better place and as human beings they have every right to live on the planet earth irrespective of national borders.
Blessed Be.
Peace. Love. Joy.
As someone living in TEXAS I am affected by the presence of illegal aliens every day. It isn't a matter of a few hundred or a few thousand "refugees" who are seeking some sort of asylum; it is at least 12 million undocumented people who artificially drive down wages by working for well below the minimum wage, who pay no income taxes, yet use all of the social services that my taxes pay for, who take full advantage of emergency room indigent care for most of their medical needs, driving health care through the roof for middle class folks, who trespass and steal and destroy the property and livestock of ranchers in border towns in their quest for a better life for themselves.
ReplyDeleteWell, I want a better life for myself too, but that's hard to achieve when you are carrying 12 million people on your back. I have a job and I don't make much money at it, but when I go to the hospital I'm expected to pay my bill. That means that right this minute I'm suffering with an elbow injury I can't afford to have treated. Right this minute there are no telling how many illegal aliens sitting in ERs across this country waiting to have the common cold treated on my dime. Pardon me for being a little pissed off.
To make matters worse they do not come to the USA to become Americans. They march through our street waving the flag of a foreign nation. They refuse to speak our language or become a part of American culture. The money they make does not go back into our economy. Most is sent back to Mexico to support large extended families there. They mock our laws and demand "rights" to which they are not entitled. Their very presence is an insult to every immigrant who went through proper channels, who saved their money and bided their time, who came to this country and hung up an American flag and who thanks whatever god they worship for the opportunity to do so.
"working for well below the minimum wage, who pay no income taxes,"
ReplyDeleteWell, if they were legal they'd make at least minimum wage and would pay taxes.
Waving foreign flags? What of Italians with Italia flags on their bumpers?
All the stupid hicks with confederate flags on their trucks?
The Irish on St. Patrick's day?
You miss the point. I'm not talking about some guy with a Mexican flag on his bumper. I'm not talking about Cinco de Mayo. I'm talking about a homogenous group of people who are citizens of another country, who take to the streets en masse, waving a banner of another nation as a public demonstration of their political clout. It was a pretty effective one too considering that none of those people, who (under laws passed by our congress) should have been arrested and deported, had the slightest fear that they would be.
ReplyDeleteAs my friend David can attest, I have no love for the Confederate flag waving "stupid hicks" whom you mention. No one is more surprised and dismayed than I to find myself agreeing with them on anything. David would also attest to the fact I am also not a racist. I think Hispanic culture is to be admired in many ways. Latinos have done much to add to our national culture and heritage. I have many close hispanic friends (who also resent illegal immigrants who make it harder for them to support their families too.)
Look at it this way: If a family with six kids moved in next door to you-- regardless of the color of their skin or the language they spoke, and on top of trying to provide for your family you had to pay their rent, buy their groceries, pay their doctor's bills and put diapers and shoes on their kids, wouldn't you feel a little overburdened?
Mexican nationals should be allowed to emmigrate to the USA. Once here, they should be paid a decent wage. They should be affored the same rights and protections under the law as any other immigrant-- as long as they do it the right way; the legal way. They should not be rewarded for breaking the law simply because they live close enough to America to cut to the head of the line.
I guess it is all pretty clear from hundreds or thousands of miles away. Why don't you come down here and experience it first hand before you profess any sort of authority on the subject? I can take you to places where I used to live in Dallas, where you could rub elbows with the folks you are so eager to embrace, and where no doubt you would get a little practical education.
I sense that you are very frustrated and angry. I can understand why you would feel like someone is taking your job and bringing down wages etc. However it is not the unfortunate people who are working for below award rate conditions that you should be upset with but the with companies that exploit these people. It is the companies who are benefiting by way of increased profits through the 'slave' labour trade that they are supporting.
ReplyDeleteMy point in the first post was that there really should not be a problem with these people (notice I don't call them aliens) actually obtaining work in the US or any other country for that matter. They should offcourse do this legally and the Government should provide the avenue for this to happen. Obviously these people are by and large living in the States anyway so why not offer then residency. They seem to be hard workers and good people.
On the issue of health care for a long time I have been dismayed by the health care system in countries like the US. Not for one minute do I think it is OK for you to have to wait to see a doctor to fix your elbow. But again I dont think that it is the people who are working below award conditions who are at fault. The fault rests solely with your Government as they are responsible for health care. I would have thought that a large country like the US would have a Universal health care system. We have one in Australia and whilst it is becoming 'americanised' in some ways it does provide health cover at a public level for all of Australia.
Im not preaching here about how wonderful Australia is because to be frank we have alot to be ashamed about including the way that we treat refugees who arrrive on our shores seeking asylum. Im merely trying to point out that your anger and frustration is better directed at your elected representatives who are the people responsible for the health care system and working conditions. It is the elected representatives who should be looking after the people. Its not the people who cross the border without the right passes who are the problem but the people elected to represent you. Surely with the wealth that the US holds they can afford to provide a universal health care system, a properly funded public education system and support low income earners and those living in poverty to attend further study after high school (secondary school). Focus your attention on these people rather than those who are slaving away for companies making big profits.
I do agree that they should go through the right channels and I am not too sure why they are not. Mexico is a very poor country so maybe they can't afford to do this, maybe they are desperate and maybe they have no other choice. I don't know. When this happens in Australia its because people are desperate and have no other real choice. Granted I don't live in the US and I do not profess to be an expert on US issues though I am human and I do profess to know alot about humanity and desperation. I don't see this as a US problem this happens to countries all around the world. I would love to take up your offer one day but I can not afford it right now.
Take care. Try to look at the other side of the coin.
Love Miss P
Miss P. I think you might be surprised at how much you and I have in common, but that is a discussion for another day.
ReplyDeleteYou make several good points, with which I agree. Perhaps in my anger and frustration I've failed to express my thoughts clearly. Please forgive me.
First, let me assure you that I have looked very closely at the other side of the coin. I have lived around Latinos all my life. For much of my adult life I have lived among the impoverished classes of this country. I have worked with and for Hispanics on road construction crews, in factories and other low-wage jobs. Many were citizens. Many were undocumented. They are indeed some of the hardest working people you will ever meet. Most are willing to do twice the work for less than half the wage. They are friendly, courteous and adore their families. There is much to be admired in their work ethic and personal moral code.
Yet I have seen the other side too. My former sister-in-law had a lengthy involvement with a Mexican gentleman who happened to be a drug dealer. We spent a great deal of time together and ate many meals at each other's dinner tables. We got along well and he was never anything but nice to me. But he crossed the border at will, bringing in drugs and undocumented migrants, and committed acts of violence-- usually against those same undocumented migrants. He was part of the problem that immigration reform must address.
I tell you all this in the hopes that you'll understand that I'm not some privileged bigot sitting in a big house hoping to keep all the "dirty wet-backs" out. I neither dislike Mexicans, nor fear their culture.
I also don't blame the people. Any man who would let his family live in poverty when a nation that was willing to look the other way while you broke the law for their betterment would be a fool not to take advantage of it. I would. You would too.
But the sad fact is that these people are being manipulated by others who would use them to their own ends. First is the Mexican government. There are two classes in Mexico, the ruling elite who are wealthy, and the rest who are poor. It is an almost classic feudal system with the masses kept in ignorance and poverty by the draconian vestiges of Napoleonic law. The Mexican government is corrupt and has no interest in providing for the welfare of its citizens. Why should they when their wealthy neighbor to the North will do it for them?
The second group is the greedy business interests who take advantage of the desperation in their homeland to lure them into servitude in the USA. Why stay home and have nothing when you can come to the US and have nothing and a half? At least here you can buy a few things at WalMart. Meanwhile, the corporate fat-cats get richer and fatter while the middle class gets poorer and the poor, poorer still.
Then there are the politicians in this country. As protesters took to the streets do you think the politicos on either side saw an individual face in that sea of humanity? They saw numbers-- and there is power in numbers.
The Republicans saw workers-- virtual robotniks, cheap factory and field fodder. An economical, inexhaustible, renewable, resource to be consumed.
The Democrats saw potential voters; individually not worth much, but as a collective, speaking (and voting) with one voice, a force to be reckoned with. They would be the best hope of driving the Republicans from power. Out of gratitude for amnesty and access to entitlements, they would continue to put the Ted Kennedys, Hillary Clintons, and Cynthia McKinneys in office.
Lastly, there are the leaders of the Mexican community themselves. They profit and keep themselves in power by promising the aforementioned entitlements (for which bona fide citizens must pay) to people who have no legitimate right to them. They are worse than Washington-Whitey. They prey upon their own people. It benefits them to keep the migrants poor, to discourage them from learning English and assimilating into the larger society. That way they become the essential middle men, without whom even the language of the nation is inaccessible. Their power is built on the backs of the poor; they need the poor much more than the poor need them, and it serves these so-called leaders to leave the people in a sort of dependent limbo.
What should be done? First, businesses who employ anyone for less than a legal wage should face criminal charges and stiff fines. By cutting off the economic incentive of business to hire illegals, the slave-jobs would dry up. Many undocumented workers would go home on their own to be with their families. Those that remained would need to be deported, at least temporarily, to file proper papers, to be examined for contagious disease, to prove their identities and to pass background checks. Once we were able to establish that they were indeed the hard working, upstanding, persons they claim to be and not among the dregs of illegals who make up 30% of our prison population, then they should be welcomed to this country with all due haste and afforded all the rights of citizenship including fair wages and the right to vote.
Lastly, we should encourage perhaps even insist on reform within Mexico. A revitalized economy and improved standard of living would benefit both sides of the Rio Grande.
Until then The Mexican immigrants and the American middle class are caught in the middle of a four way power struggle, and both groups stand to lose.
That is very impressive and a very well thought out arguement. I agree completely with your sentiments and am glad that you elaborated.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that there will be any chance that these people could be given the opportunity to become citizens? What is the political climate like on this issue in the US? Is it basically viewed either as a potential vote winner or from the Republicans point of view cheap labour for their fat cat corporate friends?
My msn name by the way is misspoliticsaustralia@yahoo.com.au!I'd love to chat about things .... I enjoy speaking to people from other parts of the world. Its interesting and fun!
WOW this is so cool, I've finally writen a post that seems to have hit a nerve and rang is some great comments all the way 'round. I feel like waving an Irish Flag! You've all made great points, I seriously doubt the issuse will be as easily settled; but that's the point - least its out in the open, being honestly confronted.
ReplyDeleteMiss P. the immigration reform bill before the congress appears to give the migrant workers what they want, but the eligibility differs depending on how long you've been here. To me it seems like we are saying, the longer you commit a crime, the less criminal it becomes. Under this plan immigrants would be eligible for citizenship...AFTER 11 YEARS! Can you imagine being stuck in bureaucratic limbo for 11 years while the red-tape machine grinds along?
ReplyDeleteWhy not require those who are not here legally to return home, then process them through in a rational controlled way that allows us to be reasonably sure they aren't criminals or terrorists or carrying tuberculoses. Once they meet a reasonable criteria, put them on a fast track to citizenship where they can begin to earn a decent wage, pay taxes to help support the social programs they take advantage of. I would much rather see 12 million newly minted citizens in five years, with a stake in the land and society, than 12 million almost-citizens who might be granted that privilege in a decade or so.